Such a pleasure engaging with you and the big boiling point as of a few weeks ago till the government decided to transfer the entire proposal to the JPC, was the proposed amendments to the Waqf Board. You are very eminently positioned to share with us as to what is the institution of the Waqf board all about?
The concept of Waqf came 1400 years ago with the advent of Islam.
Lets be clear, Waqf are properties that belong to Muslims. There are three types of Waqf. It can be wholely charitable, or partly charitable or waqf al al Aulad which is for the benefit of the family who makes the Waqf. It’s a trust that is for perpetuity. The person who makes the Waqf is called the ‘Waqif’, and the ‘Waqif’ appoints a trustee who runs the Waqf called the ‘mutawalli’. Now, once a ‘Waqif’ makes this trust, even the ‘Waqif’ cannot take it back. It is registered by a body i.e. the Waqf Board.
So, for instance, my grandmother has shops in Chandi Chowk, which she made Waqf for charitable purposes. None of us can take them back. That’s an example.
The person making the Waqf will prepare a document called the ‘Waqfnama’. And the ‘Waqfnama’ will include all the conditions for the Waqf, namely that this Waqf property is made Waqf for what purpose.
These people, the beneficiaries, are from the Muslim community only or they can be others as well?
It can be a condition. For instance, in my grandmother’s will, she laid no condition. She did say that, help poor girls get married. So, we have not stuck to any religious community.
Having said that 90% would obviously go to Muslims.
I see. And there are other types as well?
And yes, there’s a third type of Waqf, where hundred percent will go to my progeny, but they can’t dispose it off. Why have this Waqf? Because you are afraid that your progeny may waste your property.
So, in the third category, the profits will go to my progeny. But they cannot dispose of. Which means could there be more options within the last?
No, but they will still keep getting the return forever.
But they can’t sell?
Waqf properties cannot be sold. And if there is no progeny left, then the Waqf Board will send it to charity.
I see.
So these are the fundamentals.
And, you said this is not new or unique to India. It’s all over world. It is an act of Islam.
It came with the advent of Islam and it exists all over the world. So, in Muslim countries, also in non-predominantly Muslim countries as well.
You can go to England and it can exist. I don’t know if they have a Waqf Board there, but somebody can certainly make a Waqf and it can be managed managed like a Trust as per extant laws of that country. But in South Asia, we have boards.
And, coming to the proposed amendments this time?
Let’s come to the Act now. Firstly, the Muslim community in India over the last 10 years feels that it has been under pressure. There is concern that various acts of the government, though ostensibly appearing to be in the interest of the community seem to interfere with established norms. People feel let down that they are not consulted. In a democracy, what is expected is that various groups in the community will be called for consultation, which doesn’t happen. So here the government is taking on itself the ‘zimmedari’ that we should reform. They should bring reform in this community. And that creates a doubt within the Muslim community.
What does this act say?
First, there have been various amendments to the Waqf Act. The first Waqf Act in India came, I think, in 1913 and then subsequently there have been amendments.
Who does these amendments?
The government, but in consultation with the Muslim community, obviously. There is the Ministry of minority affairs and that concerns the Muslim community and brings in amendments to change with the times.
Now, in 2013, was the last amendment of the act when the government of India felt that there is corruption in the Waqf Boards. And to check that, any corruption that is found should be punishable. So, they said minimum punishment of two years, et cetera.
That was defined. They fine-tuned that you can’t sell any Waqf property. That you can’t sell Waqf property, even with the permission of the Waqf Board.
Now the government of India in its wisdom today thought that the Waqf Act should be amended. This is, this time around. There are various, shall I say, organizations in the Muslim community that deal with Muslim affairs, or there are seminaries which deal with Muslim affairs. For instance, you have the Jamiat ul Ulema Hind. They run the largest seminary in Deoband. They advise Muslims on various things. There is the Jamaat e Islami, which is a semi political body and advises on various issues.. There is another school called Firangi Mahal in Lucknow. There’s another university in a village outside Lucknow called Nadwa. These are all dealing with Islamic matters. And there is of course the Muslim Personal Law Board, which advises on Muslim affairs. None of these were consulted. To enact any law dealing with any group, minority or otherwise without consulting the group to be affected is neither correct nor wise.
What does the law say? At present the Sunnis have their own Waqf Board. The Shias have their own Waqf board, the Bohras have their Waqf board, etc. The law says, we will amalgamate Sunni, Shia, Bohra, every Waqf board into one. Not a bad idea. The question is that do the Shias, because they have certain customs, et cetera, which are different from Sunnis, do they want to come in with the Sunnis? Nobody was consulted. The Bohras are a very elite, well-to-do, intellectual, well-educated, moneyed class, small in number. Their spiritual head is the Sayedna. He’s like a prophet. Why will the Bohras like to work or to get merged with this large 120 million Sunnis and Shias. They’ll be swamped. No one consulted them.
Would they then feel they are getting outsiders, so to say?
So ok, you want to make the board into one. Then they say that in this board, there will also be non-Muslims. Well, suppose I make Mr. Berry a member of the Church of North India. What does Mr. Berry know of the churches’ working? Why will Mr. Berry want to be in the Church of North India? How can he advise the Church of North India? Or you make Mr. Najeeb Jung a member of the Tirupati trust. He knows nothing of the Puja system. He knows nothing how people go and pray. I believe this has not been thought through.
Then they say, put women on the board. Firstly, there is no restriction on women being on boards. I know personally of half a dozen ladies who are ‘mutawalli’ of waqfs.
So, there’s no restriction. Of course this comes from the generic impression that Muslim women are very badly off and, you know, they’re not treated fairly. This conception needs a bit of rectification because women generally all over India, are not treated the best. You don’t have a lady president even now in America, you know? That I am saying that women, even in England, the first women voting rights came in, I think came 1920 or 1922 after the suffragette movement. Female ratios are falling. It’s not that women are treated at par with men in any community. This is a function of education.
And, does Islam differentiate among men and women, in general?
People reading your magazine should Google the last sermon of the prophet of Islam. I think about 20% of that sermon is dedicated on how women are to be treated, how the share of women needs to be looked after. What is to be the status of women in society. So, while there are many aspects in the Islamic religion, which need to be looked from a woman’s angle in the context of the times we live in, there are many aspects which are also fairly positive.
Are Muslim women slaves? Well you saw how Muslim women reacted during the CAA agitation. They led what became a a national agitation. If you had the time to go to say Shaheen Bagh in those days, the women were telling the men, please handle the mic, please handle the electricity, but leave us to agitate. We don’t want you here. So, women think for themselves.
You and I think that the people of India don’t think well enough to vote. You and I, the upper middle class or the middle class of India have this great misconception that we are the repositories of intelligence in this country. And the ‘riksha-puller’ cannot decide as well as we can decide.
That has changed dramatically. Across communities and today’s voter is a much enlightened and emboldened person, both male and female?
He has proved it since 1951, not now. Since 1951, I have always been telling my colleagues in the civil service who come from backgrounds like ours, that when you go to the villages as Collectors please do not think that the poor villager who comes to you doesn’t have the same thinking process as yours. He’s not articulate. His expression of language may not be so subtle. And you think that that lack of expression, is lack of intelligence. That is not true.
So, all these proposals were there in the proposed act? If this be understood, what is the inherent problem in the constitution of the waqfs? Where was the need for a fresh amendment?
Now, where is the nub of the problem? There is no doubt that the Waqf Boards are corrupt. Please note that, I’m not talking of Bohras, as these are different.
Corrupt in the sense?
Making money. Now, what is the composition of Waqf Board? The Board has a chairman, and there are seven or eight members. And who are the members? Ex MPs, ex MLAs, so called important people that the government has been unable to accommodate elsewhere.
Who appoints them?
The State governments! So, who do they appoint? They appoint those guys from the Muslim community who they want to please. These are people who are powerful but who have not been able to win an election. These are people who they think are influential, but their integrity, their honesty, their education levels are never examined.
How do they sell it when that sale is not allowed?
That is the whole point. That is how they find ways. That is the whole point. The chairman of the Delhi Waqf Board is today on bail from the ED. The chairman of the Delhi Waqf Board is a sitting MLA. He was made Chairman by the elected government. He’s being examined by the enforcement directorate and he’s on bail. There are examples like this on many Chairmen, on numerous boards.
So, coming back to the proposed amendments, what makes you think that some of it was not required, those amendments or what is required but not consulted?
What is required is, if you want to change, consult the community. Have confidence in them and they should tell you what changes are required, number one. Number two, change the nature of selection of board members. That’s in your hand. But you wont do it. Because every government wants to distribute largesse. Every government must please you and me because we are powerful. And it’ll not change. So, you can change the act, but you are not attacking the crux of the problem, that is the corruption in the Waqf Board.
These days if there are surveyors appointed by government, by the way, they’re senior officer. They’re appointed by government to survey whether a property is Waqf or not Waqf. Now, the government says that we will not have a surveyor. The Collector will be a surveyor. The District Magistrate or the Collector today is the most overburdened person in the world. Not in Delhi, not in India, but in the world. He/she conducts the census ,overlooks law and order, is in charge of development work. He looks after child welfare, women’s welfare. He ensures civil supplies. Now, you want him to conduct surveys of Waqfs.
Explain again, what does it entail to survey Waqf properties?
That this property is mine. The owner has died. The villagers will say, no, it’s not. Mr. Berry came five years ago and it is not Waqf. Somebody will go and survey and then look at the land records and come to an assessment. The government now says that the Collector will do this.
What’s is the ostensible reason or the gain that will happen by giving it to the collector?
Nothing, it’s a decision which has not been thought through.
Will it bring more transparency? Will it remove corruption?
The surveyor is the same level officer as a collector. A collector is an IAS officer of six years seniority, or deputy collector of 10-12 years of service. A surveyor is a deputy secretary of the same seniority. And both are government servants. Both appointed by government.
Now the government says, okay, there should be a portal where all Waqf properties will be listed, right? Wonderful idea, should be listed. Government says, do it in six months. There are lakhs of properties that will take six years to register them in a portal. Let’s be practical about things you want to do. There are lakhs of properties.
So, issues like these, if you debate, discuss, you can easily find a solution.
Of course you can find a solution. All this is doable. But you have brought in an act. You have not consulted the community. The act is full of, shall I say, holes, which should’ve been plugged, easily plugged. The result is that there is a resentment. There is resentment from a community, which is a very large community in number, which feels that there is a needless harassment.
When it is about a single case of amendments, why think this against a community as a whole?
Okay? Please understand one thing. In India, particularly with the current government, you have forgotten the concept of affirmative action. What is affirmative action? Throughout the world, weak communities, minorities are subject to handholding. It’s called affirmative action. So, there are reservations. placements here and there. Now, in this government, affirmative action is taboo. That word is abhorrent. Everything sensitive action to do with minorities is “appeasement”. Hence the community loses confidence. It’s a matter of great concern that in political representation, the numbers of the minority community are declining rapidly. There are maybe 3% or 3.4% in parliament now, as compared to a 15% population. In the civil services, in the IAS and the IPS, the numbers of 3%, 4% or whatever, and in the army, there is a very sharp decline.
Is the government alone to blame for this?
No No. Let’s not blame the government entirely. The community itself is to blame for lack of education. But how do you get education? You get education by encouraging people, by giving them scholarships. Here you have abolished the Maulana Azad Scholarship, which was meant for minorities. So, the signal you give is of disfavour. Had it been some other government, they would have called in the representatives, called in their elected people, teachers, intellectuals etc, had an extensive discussion and brought in the change. It has been done over the years without any problem.
So, can I conclude by saying that, the amendments may have had some good points as well, or may have required some kind of review? That review would have been more amenable or possible or more conclusive, had the community been taken into confidence and a larger consensus achieved.
Absolutely right.
ABOUT THE AUTHOR
Najeeb Jung is a former LG-Delhi and former Vice Chancellor, Jamia Millia University; a former civil servant of the Madhya Pradesh cadre.
